Community Standards

Discussion in 'gV governance' started by Mars, 26 Dec 2010.

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  1. Mars

    Mars MCP
    vbulletin4

    previously known as 'our responsibilities' as outlined in the thread 'phase 2: construction'.
    understand this: there will be rules. whether you have any say in what those rules are is entirely up to you.
    please give context to the following:

    inappropriate content -
    child porn (please define)aside from the obvious example of real world pictures, what constitutes child pornography in the context of gV? would it include drawn/cgi imagery?
    shock gore (please define) what if it is on topic? should it then be kept behind a link? or is a thumbnail sufficient?
    pornography (please define) do you have a right to post porn in any thread you wish? do you have a right to not have porn posted into your threads? is the current system of the mature subforum sufficient?

    unwanted behaviour -
    spamming - (please define) referring to vi@gra, etc
    trolling (please define) mere disagreement is not trolling.
    harassment (please define)

    avatars and signatures -
    inappropriate content (see above)

    rl disclosure - (please define)

    in what ways would you like gV to be both similar to and different than other communities you are familiar with?


    this is your opportunity to shape the culture of gV. your views and opinions are of value, so please share them.

    vigorous debate is encouraged, but under no circumstances should this thread be derailed or used as a venue to deride one another.
    vigorous debate is encouraged, but under no circumstances should this thread be derailed or used as a venue to deride one another.
     
  2. Clancy

    Clancy The drama is better at Hungry Jack's
    Diggingit

    inappropriate content -
    • child porn Defined as any image, real or rendered, that depicts minors in a sexalised way
    • shock gore What constitutes a shocking image is a matter of personal opinion so defining a standard rule for what is unacceptable is, to say the least difficult. Maybe the rule on this should be: Images that are deliberately used to troll a thread or to harass any gV members are unacceptable, not only "shock gore"---anything. Of course, disputes may arise over what constitutes trolling and harassment.
    • pornography The mature subforum is sufficient at this time. If posting pornographic images in other threads is done deliberately to troll and/or harass, this is unacceptable. Otherwise, TOGTFO.
    unwanted behaviour -
    • spamming This is the deliberate, repeated posting of anything that has little or no meaning, or is posted for an ulterior purpose such as advertising a product, event or service. Or, as a demonstration of how neurotic the poster is.
    • trolling There is no such thing as a troll unless you help to create him. There are people who will take the bait some tosser sets out to divert them from contributing to a thread. But a troll can only exist if someone responds to his posts. No one is forced to reply to a would-be troll, it is always optional. So, don't do it.
    • harassment Expressing a difference of opinion is not harassment. But, gV members should exercise mature judgment when criticising others so as not to create maximum butt hurt; otherwise you're just harassing. Try to be fuckng civil. Beyond that, not sure. This is a grey area until a specific case come up. And, it surely will.
    avatars and signatures -
    • inappropriate content Children depicted in a sexualised way, and avatars and sigs that deliberately harass gV members are unacceptable. Most anything else is ok.
    rl disclosure -
    • Publishing RL info in the gV forum about anyone is grounds for perma ban. Whether information you publish is true or not, if you publish any information that purports to be factual RL details, you should be forever banned from the forum.
    I'm just winging along here. Probably forgetting lots of stuff, and I'm sure I can't be right about all of this. :)

    Thanks to Mars for setting up the discussion so well.
     
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  3. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002256----000-.html

    Child porn is adequatley defined by US law, and is sufficient for the purposes of this community. My feelings on this are clear, the hentai photo posted on SC by Fester here an adult lady was bowling with her fingers in the anus and vagina of the little girl who was obviously a child was disgusting, and is a classic example of what some pepople think is funny but is clearly illegal and not funny in the least.

    I think any 'goreporn' or 'snuff images' should be kept behind a tag. While not illegal, it's certainly not settling to roll though a thread and have something like that pop in your face.

    I rather like the mature section and think outside the mature section porn should be behind a tag, or in a thread marked NSFW. I think we've established a good community norm about this based on current posting history. Current members seem to be able to handle their porn.

    Use the definition.....

    In this context, repeated posting of the same message/image/video in more than one thread, or over and over in the same thread would constitute spam. I think it will be obvious in the thread because members will more than likely holler spam long before it's an issue to deal with. Spam seems to be a non-issue with the community, even SC handles spam fairly quickly.

    This is a thread all on it's own right?


    I think anything in the sig should be something that can is safely viewed in all threads and 'subforums' within the confines of the policy. Otherwise I don't see the rub. I like the scrolling sig thing for huge signatures, we should keep that.

    Is bullshit. It's posting or sharing any information via the channels on this board which is related to someone's real life that the person themselves has not authorized for posting or posted themselves. ANYTHING posted regarding the location or identity of a real life person without their express consent should be cause for immediate termination of someone's account, and registration prohibited in the future.

    I liked SLU's snapzilla thing, other than that, it's the same format and software as everything else. SC was like SLU without any sort of balance. It was like a free-for-all where a small portion of the board has more control over the administration of the board than the members, and can easily be influenced by their friends. This doesn't work, obviously.

    SO, to summarize, gV rocks hard, like the format, the layout, the members and the way we handle ourselves, I don't see the need for drastic change, and do NOT want it to be 'more like other communities'.

    :)
     
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  4. Sarah Nerd

    Sarah Nerd Feels most comfortable around other misfits.
    Barefooter

    I agree with this.

    I'm really happy with what it has become so far. Other then a few unhappy folks, the lack of admin seems to have majorly cut the drama here as compared to other boards I've been a regular of. It's kind of forced us to self govern ourselves and behave more like adults. On other boards there could be pages and pages of people trying to sway the admin/mods to do something when they dislike someone or some action.
     
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  5. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    this could eventually end up with us trying to decipher and interpret rl law. that legalese implies rl children, or depictions of children that are nearly indistinguishable from rl children. it doesnt seem to apply to lisa simpson or japanimation.


    what about the same question? in a debate thread it is not uncommon for somebody to constantly dodge a simple question, in which case i will simply ask the question again. i might ask that same question 20 times, if for no other reason than to underscore the fact that the person is unwilling to answer it. would that be considered spamming?



    probably so :)



    what constitutes consent? is it fair to say that by publicly offering up that information in the first place, an individual grants their consent for it to be brought up again in the future? are there degrees of disclosure? would the disclosed info need to be true for it to be considered disclosure?
     
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  6. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    1. what is 'sexualised'? this implies we could be discussing a drawing of a clothed child participating in no sexual activity all.
    2. if we are discussing abortion and one posts a picture of an aborted fetus, is that trolling? if it is a debate of drink driving and one posts a grisly photo of an accident? would it make a difference if the individual had been an active participant of the debate as opposed to having their only contribution to the discussion be the picture? should these photos remain behind a link? if so, does that not defeat their purpose? is a thumbnail (meaning the standard size thumb generated by gV) sufficient?
    3. if porn images are going to be posted in a 'non trolling' manner all over the forum, what is the purpose of the mature subforum? and wouldnt a policy like that render the entire site nsfw?
    am i to believe you are in favour of having no official policy on trolling and harassment then? outside of 'ignore them'?
    purports in a serious manner? or would this cover satire as well. if i post 'you live in your mums basement and jack off to goatse' is that 'purporting to be factual rl information'?
     
  7. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

    People are in prison in the US for possession and distribution of Hentai porn, which is cartoon depictions of children in sexual situations. The general consensus amongst the cases tried thus far, from my research during the SC debacle, shows that the US as a whole tends to lump this in with child porn, rendering it illegal.

    I consider spamming to be the same message, broadcast again and again and again. So, if you cut and pasted your post, and then just reposted it over and over, that would constitute spam, but repeated prods to answer a question wouldn't be spam. But one might make the argument that after a given number of attempts, it's worth letting go and leaving the audience to interpret the silence for themselves, as you would in court?

    I think if anything, the SC debacle of recent has shown it's best to do your fact checking before you make public accusations and post information which might be proven later to be not only invalid, but highly suspicious and inflammatory against others whom might not have been interested in being outed as well.

    I think this is pretty obvious, maybe not. If I send a RL photograph to a friend who posts here, let's say it's you for example, to keep it simple.

    Scenario 1: I send you an RL photograph, and everyone is aware that I do not post my photos on the net. I would no doubt express this in the email, and ask you not to post it.

    Posting this photograph would be a violation of my privacy, and definitely out of bounds.

    Scenario 2: My photo is posted in my profile on several private security related places that I visit, mostly consisting of other professionals with some sort of validation process to ensure validity. If you were also on one of those communities, and for some reason happened to put together that the Brandi on that community is the Bams/Lain you're talking to here.... it becomes a grey area.

    Obviously I'm not interested in mixing my RL and my SL, so this would be unfortunate for me to have posted as it would open me up to RL drama which I'm not really up for. However, it's not really any wrong-doing, as you put it together from information I made public... but then I could make the argument that the private setting of the community you took my photo from was violated when you did so, and you'd have that to contend with.

    So I think it's just better to error on the side of caution in these respects. Mulch, for instance, will email me or contact me beforehand and ask me before he posts something I've sent to him in private, or that he's found elsewhere and wants to put out there for some reason. Very respectful, probably more than one can ask, but I think that's the best way to handle it.

    The only time where I can see this being invalid would be in the case of someone having committed or is committing illegal acts wherein the community as a whole could be impacted, members could be endangered, computer systems in jeopardy, etc.

    But I would excercise due caution again, to make sure what you post is true. And, to evaluate if the drama is worth it. I found out a shitton of information about a certain person during my week long harassment ordeal... and chose to keep most of it silent, because while true, it's just not worth it to cross some lines to me.

    My :2cents:
     
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  8. GradyE

    GradyE Hybrid Angel
    Angelic

    Many good points have been made in this thread but there is a fundamental problem with many aspects of this discussion. Issues such as child porn and what constitutes such, trolling, objectionable pictures, spam etc. are to a large degree subjective, or legal definitions vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Even saying that US law for instance should be the baseline, does not solve them. Many of these issues have been discussed ad nauseum on other forums. Many people here participated in those discussions. It seems that people would like hard and fast lines or standards but I think those are impossible in a multi-national and multi cultural community, and even very difficult in a homogenous community.

    Even if standards can be agreed upon, who is to enforce them? Multiple mods on a forum can be quite unwieldy, whereas a single arbiter is under a lot of pressure.
    For the record, I sympathize with Mars and his/her dilemma.
     
  9. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

    I'm not sure why we can't, as an adult community, based on the postings in the past from the people who frequent this community, agree that it's just better to leave all depictions of child sex and nudity, cartoon or otherwise as off limits?

    I guess I was simply hoping that as a community we could agreed that children were an offlimits issue, like rape and snuff clips. There is no value in these images/videos, it's bad enough there has to be endless debate about the nuances of the issue at all.

    Good Times.
     
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  10. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    the difference is that we are discussing the issues now, before the occurrence. this will allow the behaviour to be addressed as it pertains to community standards, rather than addressed in a vacuum or via some unwritten 'common consensus'. at the very least these discussions can be used as a barometer of community sentiment when moving forward with some moderation task. or community members can read this thread and if necessary take the things said into account and modify their bahaviour.

    imo its a far better method than to claim 'the only rule is dont do anything illegal' then proceed to moderate regardless, using only the outrage of the vocal userbase, the admins personal bias, and secret PM dealings/blackmail efforts as a guide.

    its hard to say without knowing both the technical moderation design and the cultural moderation code of gV. it could in fact be quite easy.
     
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  11. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    see this is much more useful than a legal definition. the legalese is open to interpretation while this is not.
     
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  12. Clancy

    Clancy The drama is better at Hungry Jack's
    Diggingit

    The word sexualised means in my definition: children clothed or unclothed engaged in sexual activity, whether they are depicted as willing participants or not. You can't post that stuff in gV. If forum members can't decide whether an image they wish to post violates this rule, simply don't post it. If there were not RL laws that could be violated by posting "child porn" I'd not be as concerned.
    In all of the examples you mentioned, no, that is not trolling. If someone posts over and over again similar photos of grisly scenes, that is probably someone trolling the thread. Some objective examination might be required in certain cases but obvious attempt at trolling won't need any.
    Good point. I think you are right. If we want to keep the forum viewable for people at work then we need to coral all nude pics in the subforum and behind links elsewhere.
    I do not have a neat solution for this. I wanted to emphasis that members of the forum have a responsibility to resist provocation. When an admin has to decide whether someone is a troll or someone is harassing, and then take punitive measures, that can be very subjective. Maybe we could really use a separate discussion on what constitutes a troll and harassment?
    No, none of that. I think light satire is obvious, and non-threatening. What is unacceptable is when someone makes a claim about your RL info, it sounds like it could be true, and days later after a ruckus takes place in the forum over the disclosure, the person said it comes back and claims he was only joking. He's probably harassing some one if he does this, too. People are twisted. So, better to disallow publishing real life details, even if as a "practical joke".
     
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  13. Clancy

    Clancy The drama is better at Hungry Jack's
    Diggingit

    I am all for this solution.
     
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  14. Clancy

    Clancy The drama is better at Hungry Jack's
    Diggingit

    True, true. Who wouldn't like hard and fast rules. So, let's draw some up, see how we go. Rules are guides. Can be adjusted if something important comes up. And, regarding mods...Mars and company seem able to handle what ever comes up. If we, the members of the forum, could agree on a set of rules to guide our benevolent galactic hosts, I think we're in good shape for the current period.
     
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  15. GradyE

    GradyE Hybrid Angel
    Angelic

    Nina and Lain
    Both your posts deserve better response than I can give right now (very late at night and tired) but I will respond in the morning.
     
  16. Jez

    Jez Bella!
    Alienated

    I'll just sit back and watch and if it looks like something is happening that I don't like I will chime in :headspin:
     
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  17. Snapper O'Callaghan

    Snapper O'Callaghan It's not a hug. I'm not finished strangling you.

    I don't see a ton of difference between the two.

    Both seem to indicate following a certain guideline and, failing that, using community to judge.

    This is as it will always be in situations where community is given input.
     
  18. Snapper O'Callaghan

    Snapper O'Callaghan It's not a hug. I'm not finished strangling you.

    inappropriate content -
    child porn - pics and renderings of children engaged in sexual activity, beyond that, don't be a dick, you know the difference between lolita images and a black and white photo of a child running through a sprinkler with bare ass showing. If you don't nobody can help you and even when you do, there will still be disagreements about whether something crossed the line or not.
    shock gore (please define) is a thumbnail sufficient? yes
    pornography (please define) do you have a right to not have porn posted into your threads? no, I don't believe posters own threads. Once a thread is created, it is owned by the community and those that post in it. If you want control of your discussions beyond the forum accepted rules, use private communications.
    is the current system of the mature subforum sufficient? yes, as long as people can manage to stick to it

    unwanted behaviour -
    spamming - repeat advertising of RL goods
    trolling - there is no such thing, there are only posts that aggravate, which are not limited to the conventional understanding of what trolling might be. The only exceptions are posters flaunting the forum accepted rules (spamming, harassment, posting mature images out of the specific subforum)
    harassment - repeated, undesired contact through the forum's private discussion tools. Repeated questions and repeatedly posting in response to posters may constitute annoyance, but not harassment as long as there is an option to mute someone.

    avatars and signatures -
    inappropriate content - same as above, so don't do it unless somehow your sig or avatar is only visible in the mature subforum

    rl disclosure - I will defer on this issue because I don't care about it personally

    in what ways would you like gV to be both similar to and different than other communities you are familiar with?

    Locking threads is valueless. I don't appreciate the technique other than in terms of admin started threads.

    For the most part, the community will be a conglomeration of familiar behaviours


    The discussion is valuable, but ultimately there is no way to avoid having some ridiculous disagreements about what is and is not covered. Everyone is not reasonable, rational and mature. And the few that are, are not always.

    The real question is what happens when there is no clear consensus about something that skirts the rules or was never imagined in the first place.
     
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  19. GradyE

    GradyE Hybrid Angel
    Angelic

    I find that of the responses so far, Snapper's comes closest to my own opinions on the various facets of this discussion. I would add re RL info disclosure, if such information has been previously published in a public (not private) SL context or venue then it's fair game, otherwise it should be off limits.
     
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  20. margaret mfume

    margaret mfume g Village agitator

    Beyond pornography, this control of one's thread is something I can't quite get behind. I reply to a topic and can't quite see having the thread starter dictate who I can discuss it with (because they have some people on ignore) or which direction it takes (mature content or otherwise) because it's not the discussion they'd envisioned developing when they started the topic. I'm thinking, get a blog? Meeting forum guide lines should be the rule. Don't want pornographic images in "your" thread? Don't post your thread in the mature subforum where it is allowed.
     
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