Direct X 12 latest reveal

Discussion in 'tech' started by Kita, 3 Mar 2015.

  1. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    I got this news in my inbox today, though it is a week old. I just thought I would post it cause I have been feeling down, and telling people 'I told ya so' when I am feeling down makes me feel better. :)

    I tried to find my post I made maybe 2-3 years ago predicting the end of current hardware architectures that were inefficient both from a hardware standpoint (getting GPUs to scale properly when multiples are being run, as well as lag times between CPU and GPU) and software standpoint (almost no games support advanced architecture on GPUs or CPUs, and those that do choose only one brand's architecture to take advantage of, due to compatibility issues.). I said there was a big change in the works with so many advancements in mobile devices integrating GPU and CPU so well, it was going to hit the high end gamer market any day and change everything. I also said that tech would be viable for much longer when efficiency was introduced, and computers built at the time I posted about this would still be viable for a long time.

    Problem solved. Sounds like we are about to be there. No solid details yet, but DirectX 12 is overdue and should be released this year. Any card supporting DirectX12 will be golden. No solid list yet, but I imagine most mid to high end cards from the last 2-3 years should be forward compatible with a firmware update.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-directx12-amd-nvidia,28606.html#xtor=EPR-8886

    There is tons of good info, I can't find good quotes. I would post the whole article if I tried to do that. But here is what it boils down to;

    DirectX12 will put all the hardware resources into a common pool that can be drawn from by the games. Instead of dual cards rending alternating frames, which was stupid and inefficient, tasks will be delegated to different parts of the screen. Details are light, but my thinking on it is that tasks should be broken down; texture is one task, polygons are one task, physics are one task, etc. Instead of having each card solve the exact same problem, then merely output alternating parallel results (which is why if you have two 4GB memory graphics cards in your system, you still only have 4GB graphics memory. They do not scale well at all, you just get more frames instead of better frames), the resources will now be pooled and treated like one giant card. So both cards will work on the same frame together, instead of doing identical loads and just alternating output. The old way was stupid. This new API sounds like it will be working the way it always should have been done. In fact, the article says this way of rendering has been done for YEARS in other markets since the 90s, just never in PCs. Pffft.

    The article also says DirectX12 will also be able to use both an NVidia card and AMD card TOGETHER IN THE SAME SYSTEM! Since both architectures use DirectX, apparently the new version will get them playing together. Scaling will be dependent on how efficient the game engines are, so that is up to the game developers themselves. Ideally, the developers will know which cards do which tasks best, and develop engines to favor certain cards and architectures for certain tasks. If done correctly, this means dual cards will no longer be doing tasks where 4+4=6 (you can only take advantage of half the resources, roughly, of the second card with the current API), but now will do tasks where 4+4=10 (where tasks are combined and not repeated, and in fact will be slightly more efficient when delegated to the proper GPU that does it best).

    I am going to be optimistic here, and say that since developers work hard to ensure compatibility with ALL cards, patching as needed, they should be able to develop proper tweaks to take advantage of both architectures with the new API platform making it easier to develop in tandem. With previous API, developers had to choose a primary platform (which is why you will see either AMD or NVidia stamped on every decent game, so you know the platform it was made on and plays the best on) and just make the other one compatible. One card always got the short end of the stick, though in the last 5 years or so the stick has steadily been evening out. Still, the few games that took advantage of fancier features are still limited to the card architecture that has the fancy features (ie, NVidia 3D or AMD's HDMI audio). It may be possible to use both with DirectX 12! The API itself has always been able to support these features individually, just never at the same time. Say goodbye to crossfire and SLI! AMD already ditched the old cheesy little hardware bridge with the R-series, so I knew this tech was just around the corner. :)

    Overall, game developers have been getting better at compatibility, card architectures have been getting more friendly and easier to develop on... so ya, I am being optimistic that the developers will step up and do their part to make DirectX12 really fucking awesome.

    Exciting stuff! *geeky squee*

    It makes me a bit sad again to think how few people not only understand what is happening, but even get excited about it. Most gamers just care how pretty their gun looks and how little lag they have in the easiest package possible (COUGH CONSOLES COUGH) regardless of how it happens. :(

    Bitter sweet...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Mulch

    Mulch Why does the drum come hither?
    Psychedelic

    good find

    thank you
     
  3. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    And... The news is getting even better. HUGE news Tuesday. OpenGL, the OTHER major API, is going the same route. Also, they are the answer to "who is responsible this?!";

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/khronos-group-vulkan-graphics-api,28678.html

    So, as usual, OpenGL has been the one forcing Microsoft to getgud with DirectX. Surprise, surprise. :p

    Have I mentioned lately how much I adore Valve? No? Been a week or so? Let me be clear; I LOVE VALVE. I WANT TO HAVE IT'S GEEKY GAMING LOVE CHILDREN. They embrace everything RIGHT with the gaming industry, and I can forgive their few faults that are merely due to having a bigger vision that is far more important and good than being perfect, penniless saints.


    Read the article. It is so fucking exciting I can hardly contain the geek!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Mulch

    Mulch Why does the drum come hither?
    Psychedelic

    it wasnt opengl that forced thier hand. it was amds mantle i had told you about, that forced microsofts and opengls hand. reread it

    btw, your gpu has mantle support already, if you didnt realize that
     
  5. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    It's my understanding that Mantle is break off arm based on OpenGL. OpenGL has been running mobile, and Mantle uses the same principles AMD has been using in the mobile market with OpenGL. They decided to push further and build their own API based on it.
     
    Last edited: 6 Mar 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  6. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    then you should love iD even more. iD were the people keeping openGL relevant for many years, by releasing quake and the like on linux. in fact, when valve began working on halflife (and others on their quake-engined games as well) it was on iDs quake engine, and it ran opengl in addition to d3d/directX right out of the box. in fact, i believe the modern source engine is still quake (heavily modified beyond recognition no doubt) at its very heart.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    I would like iD more if they had a library beyond the 100 versions of quake and doom... and are they even still around??

    A quick Google reveals they are now owned by ZeniMax, who is the Bethesda parent company... sweet! This could be very, very promising for both iD and Bethesda. I don't hate Havok, it is versatile... but so vanilla too. Quake engine has some nice touches to it :) I am excited to see Source 2, because Source 1 became the indy developer's Havok. I hope Source 2 blows Havok out of the water, because it really has some great features I wish were more common and done as well in other engines. I think Betesda games could be taken to the next level if they didn't use that engine. It's like going on a road trip in a corolla... sure, reliable, a bit tacky and lacking features and fun... but it will get you there fine. But wouldn't a party limo be more fun? Or a convertible? Especially if another option had just as high of a reliability? Go for the best, Bethesda. Your games rock and are absolutely worth it! Chuck the starter game company engine and play with the AAA game company's big kid's engines. They rock!
     
  8. Kick Frenzy

    Kick Frenzy HUZZAH!
    Scurvy

    (Wait... are you Bethesda fans playing Elderscrolls Online yet???)
    (Do you know it's Buy-to-play (buy game, but no subscription needed)?)
     
  9. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    iD were never about churning out games. their primary duty was to maintain an engine that the other development studios would license. they were pretty great at that, the 'quake benchmark' was the defacto software and hardware benchmark for years. from a purely technically innovative view, or even the ability to best leverage hardware for performance and eyecandy, its hard to top iD.
    im not sure whats going on at iD these days. last i heard carmack had left iD and was involved in the oculus rift in some capacity, and iD without carmack is like aerosmith without steven tyler...
    valves real strength to me has always been its great decision-making from upper management. they clearly play the long-game rather than the quarterly shareholder game. giving away the sdk was pure genius and allowed kids in their bedroom to create very successful mods that kept half-life relevant for an decade, which is like 150 software years. tfc, cs, dod, and other kept people buying half-life loooong after its use by date. kind of ironic it was called 'half-life' hey
    then to drop steam on us as a centralised update/purchase hub, gamified and socialised to boot... genius!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    and speak of the devil:

    http://www.develop-online.net/news/newell-the-iphone-should-be-more-like-the-pc/0204579
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    AHMAIGAWD GEEK SQUEEEEE

    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2015/07/29/windows-10-and-directx-12-released.aspx

    This is sounding like everything I have ever wanted in an API!!!! *swoons* I want to see it in the real world! I want it out, and I want to see some benchmarks to see if it does all it says it does!! OMFG so excited!!!

    They are saying you can pool ALL onboard resources, even onboard graphics chips, and you can DELEGATE SEPARATE TASKS to each card! So I can use an Nvidia to get the unique physX and handle all physX functions, even have it do a few extra things depending on how strong it is, and it will do it's work independent of an AMD card, just drawing it's work on the screen and letting the AMD draw it's results! EXACTLY what I was hoping for!!! They are letting the work be close to the metal, so conflicts should be slim!!! HUGE list of compatibility too! Pretty much all Nvidia cards from the last 5-6 years, and all AMD from the last 3 years. There are unconfirmed rumors that because AMD developed their cards with Mantle, which is functionally identical to DX12, they will see the biggest performance increases. Some are saying it will allow an R290x to surpass a far more expensive Nvidia TitanX. Benchmarks are needed!

    The real test is how easy this will be for developers to integrate, and if all this cool shit will be seen in real-world, not in 'well it COULD be done, but no one uses it' world.

    *squeeee*
     
  12. Mulch

    Mulch Why does the drum come hither?
    Psychedelic

    suddenly, a year later, you are excited about your R290x
     
  13. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    I haven't been able to use it, n00b. I was working for the 2 months it was in, then the computer went into storage. I only played a game that was already maxed out on my old card. Told you to wait to get it!
     

Share This Page