Discussion in 'mature-NSFW' started by Mulch, 18 Apr 2015.
Am I reading it right, it's both natural and synthetic?
There's no way I was going to be able to skim and summarize, so I'm just layin down the links on ya, sister.
There are different versions, with the synthetic being way more potent.
(But I imagine a slightly different version than natural.)
Medicinal fried chicken.
DMT - Medicinal fried brains
(I keed. I keed.)
i smoked dmt (i am fairly sure based on others reports and the quantity vs effects it was nn, not 5meo. i do not think 5-meo is desirable if i am correct. both exist in natural and synthetic form, as well as extracted, which i suspect mine was, extracted. fairly simple to do if you are ok with dealing with evaporating large quantities of industrial solvent, which i most certainly am not).
those "frog licking" hippies actually used a toad that that used "venom" that it produced to stave off enemy attacks. it contains 5meo dmt and bufotenine that can be harvested by "milking"and then drying out and smoking. bufotenine, while very similar to serotonin (as is nn-dmt), is a poison of sorts and its effects are somewhat unpredictable and undocumented, despite the ease and legality of getting these toads. it also contains 5-meo, which again, if i am correct, is the undesirable, but more potent version
since we create dmt in our own body (some theorize that its production has something to do with perhaps dreaming, or the "near death experience"), we metabolize it very quickly. smoking it via synthetic or extraction, bypasses that process and delivers it very quickly, mind blowingly quickly, into the brain. you get very strong effects very quickly, and they are mostly gone in 10 minutes or so, mostly or completely gone by 30 minutes, completely gone in under 60 from most reports (including my own)
but it feels MUCH MUCH longer. time dilation is utterly absurd with encyclopedias worth of information dumped into your brain every second with enough time to at least skim all of the information. it is utterly ridiculous how much information you start receiving almost instantly. you lose touch with "consensual reality" utterly quickly... and completely.
in my experiences and mentioned in many others (but not all), the ability to reconvene with ones body and the "reality" we all co-inhabit seemed possible, like i was aware of the fact that i could return, but "reality" (which i will likely always "QUOTE" now after under 10 minutes with dmt and many others do so in their own variations), why return to mundane "reality" whist being shown the secrets of the universe in a fairly whimsical conversation with God and the very essence of everyone who has ever lived and every one who is yet to be born, human, plant, animal or whatever?
did i mention this is unlike anything i have ever come close to, except salvia, and i will return to salvia again because it is an interesting discussion in itself, although smoked salvia, despite its overwhelming power and speed, isnt remotely in the same league. useful, perhaps. smoked, definitely not. perhaps that is the same as ayahuasca vs smoked dmt... again, more to discuss later
ayahuasca apparently has the same, if not more intense time dilation as smoked dmt, intense visions, but lasts 4-6 hours, some radically more or less than that even. my rebirth after approx 5 minutes of smoke vs potentially 8 hours of the ridiculous overpower of the ancient sacrament, just recently shared with the western world, is daunting but i think my soul can now come to grips with the answers i have always been seeking
ayahuasca is a special product of nature. it is not just dmt. you see, smoked, dmt is instant and brief (not accounting for experiencing centuries in mere minutes), eaten on its own, it is metabolized and not active at all.
however... add an MAOI and suddenly dmt is VERY orally active. perhaps a more powerful experience, dragged out even longer to allow the full range of human emotion to run its course.
ayahuasca is a hot water brew of at least 2 different plant extracts, one, containing the dmt, the other, a naturally occurring MAOI . due to the use of MAOI, anyone engaging in an ayahausca ceremony should be well aware that they need to abstain from ALL other drugs, including alcohol, aspirin, pharmaceuticals, and others, for a few days before AND after or dangerous conditions can develop.weed seems ok but i think personally, that used in intoxicating doses, would distract/detract/confuse the experience and would advise against it. tobacco, oddly, is seen as an enhancer and even much much stronger nicotine blends are used during the ceremony
certain foods MUST be avoided prior to and after ingestion of the sacrament for legitimate, preventable safety reasons, and ritual often requires at least a 24 hour fast (sometimes water too) prior to undertaking.
some report ayahuascas spirit to be "jealous" and demand abstinence for a certain amount of time prior to and after. based on some reports and my experience, there is definitely a certain "sexual" element to it, but oddly it seems to lead more to a procreative mindset than a pleasurable one; sex became more of a responsibility than an activity and the animal brained enticements to procreate from instinct were laid bare, but were certainly alive and active, as was everything else ever, for that matter
so, smoked dmt is the "icebreaker" to let me know the serious, dedication, and endurance needed to take part in a full on ayahausca ceremony
i have never had peyote, but i learned a damn good recipe for natural water extraction of mescaline just a few short years ago from perfectly legal cactus, and only had 1 person (who some of you surely know, and it wasnt kita) vomit on it, and that was only because she decided to drink a coca cola during the peak. thank Saint Peters cactus, or the torches from peru for this incredible gift and knowledge
but if you havent ever had mescaline, i can tell you that aside from some unsettled stomach, perhaps some vomiting, and i had some mild diarrhea a couple of times, mescaline is about the best party drug you can get
my experiences were, about the best visuals you could get while staying bonded to reality (massive trails, breathing walls, swirling tye dye), it also gives a very mdma like phenethylamine like energetic "groovey jelly feeling" body high, lasts about 12 hours, gently and slowly peaks and begins slow descent at about the 6 hour mark (yes, it takes about 6 hours to gently peak on real mescaline).
mescaline also left me the most clear headed of all the psychedelics i ever tried, by far, including weed, which is odd when you can draw complete smiley faces in the air with trails that last 2 minutes and feel fully confident that you could safely talk to a cop during the peak. i had to talk to my mom in person once during a peak and she didnt know and didnt suspect a thing, and it was no problem at all (obviously, your mileage, dosage, previous experiences, and current set & setting could alter my description and your own experience, as with any drug).
if not for some rather socially unacceptable behaviors such as diarrhea and projectile vomiting, it would be the absolute best "recreational" chemical ever for those that prefer to be awake. i am not saying the mystical experiences cant be had while under mescalines beautiful influence, as i bet they surely could. i am just saying that realistically, you are more likely going to draw smiley faces in the sky with your trails than do any real work on your mind; your soul or anything lasting beyond a few days after the duration of the trip
and if you like mushrooms, and dmt seems out of your league, then i advise seeking out the sacrd cactus and embarking on the simple but time consuming home preparation and enjoy what nature offers you. mescaline is truly a beautiful experience, imho and experience, much more enjoyable and predictible than mushrooms. mescaline is my favorite of the "common" hallucinogens.
dmt is truly uncommon
even though they helped guide me to this place, and i placed great importance on their ability to open my mind, and sometimes they proved a little stronger than i was, lsd, psilocybin (mushrooms), mescaline (commonly peyote), weed, mdma (ecstasy), mda, salvia, ketamine, lsa, all of them, are mere window dressing and eye candy for an adventurous "night out." they arent in the same ballpark... much less universe as dmt is. not even close. anyone taking it lightly will be quickly humbled if they "break through" (more on "breaking through," later)
make no mistake about this, dmt is something entirely different. in a good and most amazing profound way. but lsd is aspirin compared to dmt. after hundreds, if not thousands of trips in my life (not exaggerating in the slightest on numbers. i think kita would back me up in this), dmt took me out of the "playroom," stood me the fuck up, and put big kids pants on me, in a good way. and i KNOW my "icebreaker" was only an invitation to the real deal... ayahausca
despite many different life experiences, people come out of it deeply changed, and as govis report implies, since i didnt mention the tool i used to meet the elves (the "drug," more on that later), most experiences, while deeply personal and unique, share some remarkable similarities, especially when it comes to the "spiritual" plane, the nature of "reality," the nature of consciousness, the individual, and yes, even God. it why i am still in awe of what i experienced for 7 minutes hundreds of hours later.
i can only mentally and spiritually prepare myself for several hours or more meeting destiny head on for a game or 2
people who cant SWIM drown in the deep end (and yes i am mocking some peoples use of SWIM to deny they ever experienced altered perceptions)
be careful what you ask for and HOW you ask for it. show it utter sincere deep respect or risk being knocked on your ass FUCKING HARD. this is not a game. this is the secret to life itself and the answer to the eternal question "what is the meaning of life?"
if you arent prepared for the answer, or understand you just might get it whether you like it or not... dont even consider it
that being said, i think our species would benefit greatly if it was a mandatory experience prior to being able to vote, or drive, or use alcohol, or do anything that might put another human at risk.
i do think it is THAT important of an experience for all humans, despite its ridiculously enormous power.
however, before expecting your actual "reality" to change much, i must share a phrase i recently learned, but certainly applies to this experience
i would add the word "cheerfully" right before the second use of the word "chop" in the above quote
like in the movie the matrix, once you take the red pill, there is no going back. you cannot unlearn it. you cannot explain it. only those who also choose the red pill will understand. but understand we all seem to.
we have to choose it. we have to consent. choosing it may cause you to unlearn many things you "thought" that "you" knew
are you certain you want to dive head first into the deep end of something that can fundamentally alter your psyche in some seriously major ways?
i am not trying to discourage you, i am just trying to advise some sincere respect and caution. go in head first, but dont forget to bring a towel!
i am not saying that you cant "handle" it. i am saying it will CHANGE you and everything around you, for long after the experience ends, and if what seems to be beyond the "membrane," eternity
try atomic warheads while tripping. MAJOR headspace change. giggity
salvia is a good preparation ONLY for how quickly and potently "reality" can change and to prepare you for loss of "consensual reality."
i havent really delved into research chemicals, so i cant speculate as i do not trust this new wave of designer drugs for many reasons. jwh family is all i would really venture into, and it was unpleasant in many ways that told me to stay away. bromine dragonfly is deadly, this shit, these "reasearch chemicals" are untested in a large enough sample setting, and they are often sold as "acid," which is 100% nonlethal in ANY dosage, when some of these new "toys" are most certainly lethal. simply put, we dont know the extent of risk we are taking with the new stuff and no reports have come in to suggest the benefits are worth the risks
for 2 years while on tour i tested many different paper and liquid samples with the marquis test, and 0% were real LSD. they all were "something," but i know what they were not, and they were not lsd.
i dont think real lsd has been around since the guy in the silo got busted. they put such a tight grip on ergot-amine as a precursor, that every single one of my plethora of sources dried up for good after the bust. and i am talking sources that went back a decade before the silo bust
my last hit of what i know was real L was with kita when we emptied my last vial in washington state on 08-08-09
anyway, dmt is pretty damn unmistakable. i think pretty much who ever experienced it will tell you there is no equal, or comparable, or any experience even close while one is still alive in this "reality"
ok, as explained earlier, dmt and ayahausca are the same chemical, or family of chemicals. smoked dmt is very quick and pretty damn painless for such a profound experience, as far as i felt, 0 physical side effects and a good degree of euphoria
ayahausca is the same chemical taken with an MAOI to become orally active, both the DMT and MAOI being organic in nature, not synthetic, but comes with much much more physical baggage, as well as apparently emotional gradients
the alkaloids produce the effect alkaloids produce, nausea and similar effects. i can produce a beautiful mescaline drink with just kitchen tools and water and citrus that uses science to minimize the actual nausea,
i mentioned "the purge" within the ayahausca experience before. "the purge" is often a physical manifestation of your mind being cleansed. i mentioned vomiting. it seems some people purge more than just that. tears, mucous, vomit, sweat, and yes, diarrhea, during the strongest, most personal, most intense and important moments of an ayahouasca ceremony.
the video of the guy you saw was likely yes, dmt, but it was likely an ayahuasca ceremony, when the person was very literally doing battle with his inner demons and purging them as his physical body in this "reality" did the same in some sense.so you are both right and wrong in a sense about your understanding of dmt vs ayahausca
in other words, you have no idea the intense pressure and unforgiving enlightenment he was being confronted with on a very deeply personal level, and while shitting oneself may not seem fun (and it certainly cant be), i can understand it. but only because i have been there and can understand the power he was facing and how his human form no longer factored into the experience as he likely had already "died." (more on the recurring theme of "dying" while on dmt later).
again, i must caution you to be empathetic, because if you choose to walk this path, you will face indescribable forces which may or may not be what you want to face at that moment with an unimaginable intensity that won't subside until it is done with you.
i cant judge this man. to judge this man who shat himself would be to judge myself, even though i did not shit myself. these last 2 sentences are important, and as simple as the concept is on a superficial level, it WILL take on a new, urgent meaning post dmt
as i made a mescaline drink that omits nausea, for the most part, i can likely find a way to make a similar dmt brew to reduce or eliminate nausea, and weed can be used as well although it is not advised for many reasons, not that it isnt a wonderful accompaniment, but that it will alter ones experience.
i think though, that "the purge" may be necessary to help our minds cope with the experience on a physical relationship to the mental/spiritual and reconcile it all for assimilation back to "reality"
i wont be doing anything to minimize the physical side effects and if i puke on and shit myself, so be it. the ayahausca is a medicine, and like many medicines, i think that there is some degree of unpleasantness to go along with the cure.
i think that "the purge" is as much a part of the experience as any other (and it may simply be metaphor, but everything is metaphor with dmt. there is no way to express it except via metaphor but to otherwise lie about it and say it is exactly as you stated even though simple words cant verbalize this experience by any means whatsoever at all.)
the words of those who have been "there" share similar "landmarks," but often viewed from varying degrees of perspectives. that being said, the "landmarks" are unique enough that when we refer to them, those who have been "there" know what we are referring to
this is not taking drugs. this is something entirely different, on so many levels. to an amazing degree, some of the traditional psychedelic visuals, in fact, seem to get in the way of the actual "visions." things you craved from psychedelics before seem to be unimportant and a distraction when given in excess when dmt lays the real shit on you. your prior experiences with hallucinogens only slightly prepare you for dmt... and only because they offer you this subtle inkling that there is more out there you dont quite understand... and with dmt, you finally do
and THEN you understand, and you are unprepared and naked and vulnerable, in fact, YOU no longer exist and you wonder if YOU ever did exist in "reality" at all or were only a figment of your own imagination because you willed yourself "life"...
even when you sober up completely... it stays with you.
that being said, i am sooooooo glad.
here is a list of a couple of long term side effects myself and others have reported:
no fear of death (perhaps only the process of dying, not the result)
opening the door for others who you don't know
appreciation for birds
respect for water
enjoying, really enjoying the simple act of breathing
worship of life itself, no matter its incarnation
becoming in tune with the pulse of energy and creation itself
obviosuly, this is only a very small list, but some of these penetrate pretty much all experiences during a dmt "breakthrough"
the lame "Acid" likely wasnt. mdma is fine once or twice a year in moderation, but dont buy pills, only powder. there are very cheap tests to ensure you are actually getting mdma. its worth it to ensure you get the real deal, trust me. having bunk ecstasy sucks ass, not just getting ripped off, but the placebo is usually dxm or something more sinister. stupid crap. once you know the "taste" of the crystal, half the battle is over. just get a test to confirm
absinthe is actually natural, if the wormwood was even present in a bottle in the US. mostly, it is just a strong anise flavored liqueur, and ouzo would be a better alternative in price/quality than trendy "legal" absinthe
mushrooms are great. i love them. i have taken them a few times a year since high school. cactus extract is even better, but much less "convenient" than mushrooms. mushrooms can finish a day and require 0 preparation aside from drying. mescaline IS the day. it takes a lot of time and effort to prepare. also, the pesky nausea thing is more likely on mescaline then psylocibin, although i have puked more than a few times on shrooms (which was actually awesome once completed to such a degree that "the purge" of ayahausca actually seems more of a benefit to me than a downside)
ayahuasca is 100% natural. i suspect most smoked dmt is as well, however a chemical extraction of natural sources, although synthetic certainly exists as well and would likely be cheaper to produce. the likelihood of people using dmt very often would seem to limit demand as it is kind of a once you are there, you dont need a chemical to go back type of thing, so i really dont think there is a market for a synthetic, which seems to explain its scarcity as if someone extracted a decent, but not commercial amount, got what they needed and sold the rest off.
i suspect due to factors science cant isolate, that the ayahausca experience is different enough to smoked dmt to commit to after the "icebreaker" lets you know the nature of what you are dealing with and if you are ready to commit to the full blown long term dance with destiny
i will touch on the smoked vs eaten debate later, along with the analogue argument with salvia. but to summarize, the argument is that smoked, it is "convenient" and a "novelty" recreational "high" vs a traditional, longer, more unpredictable, more potential for unpleasantness orally ingested methods that were termed "medicine" through the ages, not "highs" of the now
again, its complicated and partial to biases of all kinds, but the smoked vs eaten debate is perhaps a very legitimate debate to be had for those that want to do very serious work with oneself vs those that want a brain carnival ride for a few minutes.. i guess both are legit but i think anyone "casually" going into a dmt session is likely going to be in for a big fucking shock
not only is consent necessary IMHO, but INFORMED consent
wanna get high?
dmt is NOT the answer to that particular question!
i hope i answered your question in the giant wall of text above, but if not, yes, dmt is natural. it exists already inside of you because your body itself produces it. for what, we dont really know.
if and when you do dmt, i assure you, you will realize that despite its overwhelming power, it is natural, it is in you, it is a decoded message of some sort implanted all over life itself, perhaps in the very dna that makes you, you
you know that i think everyone should try it once, but only after being informed and consenting to it. i was informed and at some spiritual level beyond my comprehension, i consented to it only slightly before it made its appearance to me in a manner where i trusted its intentions and went with it.
i knew about it since high school and only once, 6 years ago, did i ever personally encounter it, even though i didnt accept the invitation at that time
if you decide to trust it (and i think that you should), go with it. dont resist. let it lead the way. go with it. even if seems unbearably unpleasant. let it have its way with you and face your fears and demons. you will die (again, more on this later), perhaps more than once, perhaps millions of times. but you will come out of the experience very much alive, perhaps MORE alive than you have ever been before. the metaphorical butterfly shedding its cocoon
you have been informed. now it is up to you to consent.
ok, off topic but my thread AND my fault
silly good time
village people were so over the top, but oddly innocent in their campy homosexuality, both my macho camera guys and myself were totally comfortable having a good time with them and letting them do their gay ass thing and going with it full on.
and you know what? they were fun! and entertaining. i wasnt expecting much at all and was impressed to how fun they were for a 6 man karaoke act. normally i would use that term to mock, but in their case, a band would be distracting to the silly theatrics that make the village people the village people
one of the easiest shows i ever had to direct. "pick up the cowboy, go to the construction worker, end up on the indian!"
lots of fun
which brings me to the disco main event
i gotta say, this guy has "it," whatever "it" is
he was pretty much born to entertain
and his backup dancers, waking the heterosexuals in the crowd the fuck up. his band was awesome and covered up any flaws kc may have had as a frontman
man, his dancers were distracting...
anyway, way more than i expected. kc is a powerhouse of energy who didnt stop singing, dancing, and occasionally playing a memorable keyboard riff. he wasnt particularly good at any one thing, and his looks and moves were mediocre at best, but seriously, that man gave it his all and at 64 years old, he was a cut above some children of today. he sweat buckets and earned far more than he was likely paid.
he did about 90 minutes and despite what i thought, he kept the show moving the entire time, with his on stage personality being very important to the over the top disco anthems.
remarkably, he OWNED the crowd and way over achieved from what i expected, elevating a forgotten, sometimes hated niche into a powerhouse party vehicle which he drove into a excited "frenzy" considering how "dead" disco is
if the price is cheap, i strongly recommend. have a few drinks, a toke or 2, and put on your boogie shoes and shake your booty because thats the way, uh huh uh huh, i like it, uh huh uh huh!
(yeah cheesy, but what can i say, i seen enough concerts to say when someone puts on a good show and damn, this was a good show from both acts that i had thought would be a joke of a disaster)
Phew... that was a LOT of text! lol
I want to start off by saying I definitely respect the places you can go.
Even with acid and mesc (which, I did do quite a bit of (pill form)), I respected them for the tools they can be.
While almost all my trips were in a "party" setting, I tended to exist outside of everyone else for the most part.
And they weren't "party" parties, it was a bunch of people at my place who were all doing acid or mesc.
(That took up a large portion of 1994)
An interesting side note, to maybe illustrate myself a bit, is that I once went to a tarot card reader at a Ren Fair.
He had me think of a question and went about his business.
(I can't remember when he asked what my question was... before or after the reading, but the one I'd thought of was, "What do I need to know")
I forget pretty much the whole reading except for one comment he had made... that I was too detached from my humanity and was existing on a more spiritual level.
He said it would behoove me to get back in touch with normal human level stuff.
(And thus, eventually, Kick Frenzy was born... he/I really have had an impact on that part of myself.)
Part of me thinks it would be wise to get the DMT intro first, but part of me prefers the idea of getting the full experience without any spoilers.
It certainly isn't the method I would encourage other people to follow, I'm just... different.
Oh yeah... and I don't think that guy spinning on the ground in a shitty diaper was at any kind of serious ceremony.
He was at a concert and the concert crowd wasn't far from where he was.
On the other hand, it's possible he had been part of a ceremony... I mean, they did happen at festivals.
Either way, I'm not saying I would refuse the DMT or Ayahuasca experience, just... I'd rather not shit myself is all.
I was thinking about what I've done so far in my life and I think this is the list (of hallucinagen related stuff):
Shrooms (dried, fresh), LSD (paper, gel, liquid), Mescaline (pill), 2C-i (powder), Salvia (smoked)... and I think it was PCP that I smoked a little of one time.
(I did ecstasy too, but I wouldn't include it in that list really.)
no , really
Sorry for the late response, it was awesome! It was my first day off in a while, figured split it into four segments, i'm still an edible newbie. After an hour, loved where i was headed while watching "the dude" for the first time and took the second quarter.
Felt great after the flick, elated, warm, and fuzzy, so took Tim Leary's advice and went for the other half. Since you mentioned flying into space put on "interstellar" and my journey continued. Before this, thought jolly ranchers were the bomb, now that was a whole other level.
Refraining from anything that would cloud my cloud the rest of the night, being the victim of getting bouldered by a car at 50-60 mph on a ninja 600 while waiting at a red light the usual nightly ritual of pharmaceuticals was not needed, my body felt benign to the event, slept better than i had in a long time. That was amazing!
I wish i could be more detailed, it was a very relaxed vibe, and will be going further with edibles, especially "higher powered" ones.
Btw it was kept it in a lil cooler w/ ice for 2 days, (it was my faux "lunch" lol) --remember the egg experiment in high school? Yup
Thanks Kita and Mulch! --When youre ready for the long haul count me in, doing some more research for that adventure.
Mulch, you mentioned "you will die (more on this later)", did you experience what has been sometimes referred to as ego death?
Oh yeah. Pretty much immediately. But that was where things got really interesting. More on that later when I am not so out of my mind fatigued.
i wonder how often physicists meet with the elves
neither of these articles are at all incongruent with my brief moments with the elves, and in fact, would fit quite nicely into one of the narratives...