Here a gun, there a gun, everywhere a gun. More guns = More safety, right?

Discussion in 'area17-NSFW' started by Lain, 22 Sep 2015.

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  1. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

    Had a conversation with Bunnie's mom this morning. It went something like this.....

    B.Mom: It's not the guns it's the crazies.

    Lain (is sane): Yes, the crazies have access to more guns than they should. If we had better enforcement of existing laws and a universal requirement for background checks that permit mental health history to be taken into account, things would improve dramatically.

    B.Mom: Background checks won't solve anything. The crazies still have guns. That guy in Roseberg had all of his guns legally.

    Lain (is sane): Right, because there's no requirement for background checks on retail gun sales do not take mental health into account, so there's no way to know if the guy who's buying the gun is crazy unless he's been in jail for being crazy, and only then if it was a certain type of crime (violence, or drugs). He could have lived 20 years in a mental health institution and was released yesterday, walked into a gun store and bought a rifle, shotgun, or anything but a handgun, coupled with as much ammunition as he can carry, strap it to his back and go strolling through the Walmart the same day and no one seems to be concerned that HE might be the crazy asshole that's going to shoot up the place.

    B.Mom: (Something about how she has a gun that her mom gave her and there was no background check so she could just go crazy etc).

    Lain (is sane): Right but if you had been required to go through a background check upon reciept of that weapon and you are a nutter, then a background check which takes hat into consideration would bar you from legal ownership.

    B.Mom: But the bad guys will still have guns.

    Lain (is sane): So why bother doing anything to decrease the likelihood that some nutter has access to more firepower than your average Marine infantry soldier?

    B.Mom: They need to treat the crazies.

    Lain (is fastly becoming insane): Right but if the background check doesn't look to see if people are nuts then getting them treatment is only part of the solution, because psychotic people can't really be "cured" enough to safely posses firearms.

    B.Mom: (Something I cannot recall right now because the blood was rushing into my eyes and I had to exit the room before I totally lost my mind and beat her unconscious with that stupid smirk on her face)

    Sometimes people just strike a chord with me, and this woman likes to get on a soapbox about Marijuana use and Guns and "it's that black guy's fault". Forgetting all the while (or never bothering to learn in the first place) that Marijuana never hurt anyone so stop hollering through your glass of wine at me bitch.... You're right, guns don't kill people, stupid redneck assholes who are convinced the Gub'ment is taking away their guns so the black president can perform a coup de grâce on the clearly discriminated against white culture that rightfully killed all of the Indians so they could occupy this place and turn it into the biggest backyard redneck fuckfest ever. THEY DID IT. Every one of those redneck fucks is responsible for the death of everyone of these people.

    And lastly let's not forget that this country was founded by rich, white slave owners who didn't want to pay their taxes any longer, have driven this country into the ground with their criminal corporate and banking infrastructure, capping off the century with one of the most effective presidencies in history if your goal was to suck all of the life from the economy and stick it in your back pocket while you ride off into the sunset in your cowboy hat telling everyone the black guy did it.

    When will you fucking redneck, gun loving assholes learn that no matter how many big ass guns you own, the Gub'ment has many, many more guns that are much, much bigger than yours and if you're clearly that big of a threat there's always drone strikes on your pitiful little end of the world bunker. So FUCK YOU and the horse you rode off on you backwards ass redneck fucks.

    Good F'n Times
     
    Last edited: 3 Oct 2015
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  2. Bunnie

    Bunnie Everybody loves the sunshine.
    Baked

    It was real fun. We were there for about 5 minutes.
     
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  3. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    The list of things never to bring up around my parents includes:

    All issues related to Republican policy
    Any liberal idea that doesn't come with a conservative twist
    Religion
    Money
    Social Deviants
    Mental Disorders (considered the same as social deviants to them. Crazy is a choice, and social deviants are crazy!)
    Science
    Poor in developed nations (but anywhere else is fine, as long as you aren't calling them to do anything but display empathy. If you are poor in the US, they think the person is just lazy and whiny and leeching off others.)
    Logic


    The list is longer, but that covers a good chunk of it. :)


    Oh, we both like the new Pope. There is hope for that! We just don't mention religion, only the Pope. ;) If only ALL Catholics could be more like him and lead by action, instead of just repeating his words-- which are the same words from their holy book-- to others. The world would be much more awesome if all the christians learned reading comprehension instead of focusing on Revelations and all the BS said by hateful MEN that CONTRADICTS the words of their prophet. It's very, very clear that the words said by their prophet was to overrule anything that was being said by the powerful and corrupt religious leaders. This included men who came AFTERWARDS with rules that contradicted what the prophet said because they were filled with old fashioned, hateful OPINIONS leftover from the shitty, violent, hateful society ruled by a select few super wealthy in a military industrial complex society.

    I just had deja vu over here. Hmmm....
     
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  4. Bunnie

    Bunnie Everybody loves the sunshine.
    Baked

    Same basic list here. Now my mom is acting like a child. Not answering her phone. When I called her to stop by, she did her usual, "I'm busy on the phone with grandma and can't talk to you." She does this every time someone challenges her. At all. She shuts down.

    Once when my dad finally got sick of her excessive spending, he confronted her and she left him. For a week she moved to my grandma's. My dad blamed us kids. Good fucking times.
     
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  5. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    i reckon the guns arent the problem. the shootings are symptoms of something larger. thats what needs to be looked at, not making criminals of past, present, or future gun owners.
     
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  6. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    I agree Nina. It's a bigger problem that needs addressing, and isn't getting addressed. There is a HUGE can of worms behind all this that our politicians don't want to touch due to the volatility, or just can't make any progress on due to so many conflicting personal interests.

    The frustration leads people to want at least a band-aid, getting the guns out of the hands of crazies, and that comes with a cost as well. Helping the crazies is not fiscally conservative, however, so republicans are suffering from cognitive dissonance trying to get a solution. They just ignore it, throwing out 'well, guns aren't the problem' (true), but refusing all attempts of helping mentally ill or giving more funding to outreach and programs. And they outright refuse to legislate any restrictions on gun ownership, most even fighting anything to regulate sales to convicted felons or known violent and unstable persons. Really, now. Those people shouldn't be allowed to buy bomb-making materials either, and should activate warning systems if they even order too much fertilizer so their parole officer can check in. Oh, also, no one wants to give further funding to post-release support and tracking as well, so the system is completely overburdened. A large part of the overburdening is due to wasting MASSIVE amounts of time and money on non-violent drug offenders, when that kind of monitoring should go through a separate systems since they aren't violent offenders, just people who are sick and addicted. All the money that is needed is available if we quit prosecuting non-violent offenders and spending MASSIVE amounts of money to imprison them instead of just creating outreach programs and setting up funded rehab/ support systems. It doesn't have to be as good as private rehab, but there needs to be something. The same system that helps mentally ill get the treatment they need and makes sure they don't shoot people can help drug addicts so they don't shoot people for a high either.

    The money is already there if we can pry it out of the hands of the prison system, which is quickly become privatized. This system finds more prisoners to be in THEIR best interests, and is able to justify more funding for the prisons by making them dangerous. Throwing as many people in there as they can with 'zero tolerance' rules is a ruse; imprisoning someone for bad life choices doesn't prevent crime, it just makes more prisoners, who become criminals by the time they get out. If you ever talk to a US prison guard, you will find ALL of them are seeing this; the system is imprisoning non-violents with violents so they can be taught how to be repeat customers. It is a training area for criminals. Normal people are being turned into monsters when thrown in a cage with them, under very dangerous conditions of understaffing, undertraining, and tolerance for abuse and violence due to lack of control over the population. You don't need to cast a wider net to be "Tough on Crime", but that is how the FUNDED campaigns in cities are being implemented. "Tough on CRIMINALS" is how it should be. Which means monitoring them when they come out, making sure they stay in if they are seriously fucked up, and not mixing in people who are boneheads but not criminals. And compassion to those who need it. Psychologically, vastly more people respond to compassion better than violence. Animals do too. Treat someone like a criminal, fuck up their minds and their lives instead of helping them out, and the chance of them turning around their lives takes a nosedive. They become despondent and hopeless when they can't find work due to a prison record. Family and friends disconnect. People are cornered after prison, and gangs know this. They survive and thrive based on this. Prison is gang networking. They know most people's lives are shattered by imprisonment, and they know people have nothing left to lose. They already lost everything. And they are willing to do what is needed to survive, because the world is truly twisted against them. If you help someone after a mistake, let them see a light instead of a black pit, the vast majority will take the help instead of being booted into the pit. Their lives turn around without further consequences, the messes less daunting and difficult to clean up. And, certainly, because medical records are private, allow them to still become employed and find a place to live after turning themselves around. All for vastly less money, and with a positive impact on society instead of a negative one.

    And for every criminal someone trots in front of me, saying they were given extra chances then committed an extra crime, I can find TEN or more normal joes who have drug abuse history, but had the fortune of never being caught, and managed to turn their lives around. Just because someone got caught with the drugs, doesn't mean they are any less likely to recover than those that weren't. It doesn't mean they are more deserving of harsh sentences and prosecution. And just because someone messes up, it doesn't mean they can't get their lives back on track. They should just have the fortune/ misfortune of getting an intervention instead of waking up to reality on their own. Get them cleaned up, and back to life like any other normal person with a rough patch. Don't turn them into criminals because of it... But that is bad for business, of course. Even prison is making powerful people really good money in the US. It's disgusting. AND I AM FORCED TO PAY FOR THIS BULLSHIT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. Our taxes don't go back to public services. You chase the money, you find the vast majority is ending up in private party pockets. Absolutely guaranteed. That is never, EVER how it should be. Not even close. It makes me sick to even think about it, because I don't have a choice. I don't mind paying taxes that go back into public programs and is distributed into society for mutual benefits and to help those in need. But by just paying taxes, I am making the 1% richer and doing very little for the general public. Blech. :(

    So, ya, it's all a symptom of many bigger problems, none of which are getting fixed, all getting worse as dems and repubs fight over getting any meaningful legislation passed. Nothing is getting better, but each side earmarks awful bills guaranteed to fail (or that do nothing) enough to keep themselves in office and their personal funding rolling in. Our entire system has devolved into a system of "What will this do for ME?" in every decision. The people are of no concern. Only the brats up on the hill jerking each other and their corporate benefactors off. If their corporate benefactors or their party's decision-makers won't like something, the senators will fight it, regardless if it is the right call for the people or in the spirit/ values of the nation.
     
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  7. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    i agree with everything you said.
     
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  8. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

  9. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    To be fair, this shooting resembled the kind of inner city violence seen daily in this country. That stuff just never gets past local news because it is so common. This one was a white kid and at a school, so it made national news. If ALL shootings resulting in death made the news, we would be drowned in news about shootings daily.

    We have become so numb to the violence of guns, we have to edit out ones that are 'less important'. And that has been going on for long, long since before I was born. That is the real evidence of how far past reasonable this is.

    Wiki sez: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
    So, mass shootings went DOWN in the 90's through the start of the new millennium, but now is seeing a huge spike again, and is increasing every year. The following numbers are therefore old, and have gone up. There is also a chart that shows 18-24 year olds commit the most gun-related crimes by a large margin. Insurance and car rental companies know how stupid that age range is, which is why they can't rent cars without a massive rental price increase. I don't think someone should be able to get a gun without dedication to classes and training as well as some sort of vetting for maturity or competence, such as showing a history of being a responsible hunter, until they are 25. Nor do I think anyone should be allowed in the military until that age. We are not in a time of war. (editing this, because, well, we declared war on OTHER NATIONS, but have no draft in place nor are we under any threat directly from a nation. Declaring war on a country because their inner strife has spilled out of their borders is asinine, and I don't ever think of our activity overseas as "war" so much as... "military engagement", I suppose) There is no need for bonehead kids to be playing with weapons in the desert. But I digress.

    Many of those deaths are also due to escalation of a situation when someone had a gun, and there was no intention for killing in the first place. But guns are very efficient at that, regardless of intent.

    We don't hear about even 1,000 deaths through national news, let alone over 10,000. 67% of homocides in the US in 2010 were conducted with a firearms. The number has increased since then.

    It is also a VERY popular choice for suicide, and highly efficient. Most people who attempt suicide and fail never try again, but firearms are 90% effective at succeeding, far more than any other method. There is only a 10-15% chance of someone who attempted and failed suicide will die of suicide through a repeat attempt. So, 85-95% of those deaths by firearms just had a bad day, and if they took pills instead (5% chance of dying) the vast majority would have gone on living their lives. 61% of all gun related deaths, according the Wiki, are actually suicides.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt

    These are the kinds of numbers that are affected by gun control. The numbers I do admit are higher when we talk about violence as a whole. Guns take a big chunk of it, and are by far the most lethal of all options, but still don't address the separate issue of the need to commit acts of violence. That is it's own issue which, as I have said before, is much more systemic and a bigger deal, but takes far longer to address. We can see patterns that are screaming at us to DO SOMETHING, even if it is just stopping the rise in gun violence so we can address the real issues. It is quickly getting out of control, and has no sign of getting better. It's been there for many years, and will not go away on it's own.
     
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  10. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

    Speaking of guns, the last few days I have seen upwards of a dozen "stories" about ISIS troops putting out PR videos showcasing a fleet of Toyota trucks (shiny new ones, not junkyard mad max ones).

    Random follow ups on a few of these led to stories about ISIS overrunning garrisons which contain stockpiles of weapons and equipment we've given to the inept group tasked with using them to defend their country, effectively funding and equipping the largest terrorist organization in motion.

    So today, I read an article which summarizes as, "US to stop giving $500 Million to Syrians to fight ISIS" and I thought, sweet, we'll save $500 Million and the ISIS fighters won't be getting fresh shipments of brand new, cutting edge killing machines. Until I read the next line, "instead the money will be used to fund another group we feel will be more effective".

    I can't help but see a connection in shipping more guns and ammunition and the escalating violence as we try to suppress a force we're providing more and more weaponry to.

    Discuss
     
  11. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    What group is more effective? Corporate gun for hire mercenaries? Oh, yes, THEY are quite a bit more effective... THEY are unregulated and don't even have to pretend to follow international law like US soldiers. They are much more efficient at killing all things, and less discriminatory at who they kill. Which is really saying something considering we have killed numerous times more civilians than combatants with 'regulated' military action and 'targeted' attacks.

    *facepalm*

    The more we dig in, the deeper this shit goes. It doesn't end. Just swimming in it, caught in the same unwinnable fights that THEY have been having for centuries.
     
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  12. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

    Hey now, more guns = more security and less gun deaths, just take this country as an example. ;)

    /sarcasm

    I'm not sure what the solution is at this point, but giving more money and guns to people we barely trust in an effort to stop the bad guys from stealing same money and guns seems like a shitty backup plan.

    I read somewhere that congress has already allocated 1.2b just in case the current arsenal we've shipped over there goes missing, it can be replaced.

    Military Strategy. It's like a bad game of capture the flag where one team is clearly cheating and the other team refuses to capitulate and resign.
     
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  13. Bunnie

    Bunnie Everybody loves the sunshine.
    Baked

  14. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

    Yeah, that's the answer. /sarcasm
     
  15. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    that reads like something straight from the onion.
     
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  16. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

    This is why we can't have nice things.....

    Unfortunately, it's not a story from the Onion, even the Onion has some tact. No, this is reality, millions of hapless, untrained, unskilled, on-edge, ready to go all Miami-vice on the next Home Depot shoplifter they see assholes running around the state of Maine able to conceal pistols.

    Allowing one-handed knives and silencers is a real cherry on this shit sundae. Today another asshole started shooting in a parking lot because he THOUGHT someone was shoplifting.

    How many bodies have to drop before everyone gets a fucking grip?
     
  17. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    But how can I show I am a MAN unless I show my power by brandishing a weapon? And how can I be an hero and prove my worth to the world unless I take a stand against every injustice in the world by using my power and shooting it?

    I blame superheros and comics. *nods slowly* Everyone wants to fight teh bad guys and be a hero like they see in the media. It's the only way to get all the ladies and finally gain respect from the boss!
     
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  18. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist
    Sneaky

    If someone shooting at the tires of a shoplifting 'suspect' doesn't demonstrate the flawed thinking, I don't know what does.

    Do we really want to revert to the days of shoot-outs in the streets because pissed of people refuse to direct their anger at the true issue?

    Dodge City, USA

    Good Times
     
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  19. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    I wanna be Deadpool when I grow up!!

    Bang, Bang bang! Bang! Baaaaannnnggg!!! WOOHOO!!
     
  20. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    ascontent_ord1_1.xx.fbcdn.net_hphotos_xap1_v_t1.0_9_12112284_1eae0d2d5a0d74994ee17108a95e6a026.jpg

    :ROFLMAO:
     
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