Lain's Windows 10 Review - Hopefully - or not :D

Discussion in 'onTopic' started by Briana, 30 Jul 2015.

  1. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    Yup, just like I thought from early buzz and early reports.

    I will still wait a year to see if they get their shit together before I make a call for the laptop. Most likely my main rig will keep 7 until end of support.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist

    Yes I found the 'metered connection' toggle. This did drop the bandwidth consumption a bit.

    I've seen a significant overall system response as well as a drop in bandwidth consumption after removing Comodo.
  3. Mulch

    Mulch Why does the drum come hither?

    honestly, ad blockers, solid anti malware in the OS, flash control, and safe browsing kind of eliminates the need for a standalone antivirus

    most infections these days come from social engineering, like spearphishing.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    I am paranoid because Lain tells me to be... ;)

    ...buuuut based on my personal experience, *knocks on wood* I have kept myself bug-free for years and years doing what Mulch just said, and using primarily Windows Security essentials. I don't go to icky sites, and I keep my browser locked down. I stay behind a router firewall to keep wandering stuff out, and I know the state of everything on my net.

    Only lately have I upped the paranoia because I have been using open public wifi to study in some FUCKING PEACE (ehm) but nothing seems to pop the firewall or antivirus... so I am guessing I am getting lucky and no one malicious is screwing around on the network.

    All security people I have talked to are paranoid (as they should be, it means they are good at their jobs) and wave off MS security essentials too. Soooo I am not sure if that is based on professional experience, where they deal with idiots who fail to practice basic safe practices and need to have something clean up after them. Or if there are super sekret buggies plotting away on my systems as we speak that I am ignorant of, but security experts would notice, because they are pretty hardcore bugs/ rootkits etc. that windows let in, and not even third party antiviruses can detect after infection, so now I am screwed. Or... have I really kept myself clean with mostly common sense and sticking to secure networks?

    I have had to reinstall Windows 7 a few times. At least twice it appeared to be tied to drivers for antivirus making things go haywire. Another time it seemed to be a bad MBR. Failures on my XP machine were also tied to those two things as well as two hard drive failures. But, in the back of my mind, except in the case of hard drive failure of course, I have always wondered.... rootkit? I do checks and stuff, didn't have signs of infection (but, I have had powerful systems that really wouldn't show strain or stress) but.... a virus could have mucked with the antivirus to keep it from working right, and it was enough to eventually cause driver corruption and boot issues. And I guess if it is running rampant, it may have bled into the MBR and corrupted it, or had tried to rewrite itself into it discretely and only mucked it up instead? And the fact I have basically gotten into a horrible habit of just throwing the old install onto a spare drive and plugging it in to pull stuff off rather than tediously reinstalling things fresh and by hand... because I always have assumed everything was clean... I have gotten this tinge of paranoia that I might be reinfecting myself over and over again with some mystery super bug that neither MS or Comodo or Norton or anything else I have used over the years ever noticed.

    SO. Other than me potentially being my own Typhoid Mary for the same super nasty bug that is very hard to detect once you are infected, I have at least managed to maintain an appearance of being bug free without needing to employ max security tactics. I just have used lightweight, unobtrusive solutions with good browsing habits to keep the majority of riff-raff out. If I am secretly harboring infections, I will be a bit sad inside that I missed it, but also frankly unsure how to stop it from happening again. More draconian security measures never seem to be more effective or ever see infections that MS missed, they are just resource hogs.

    I will keep Comodo on this laptop until I am done using public wifi. I am not sure if it is doing any better job than MS and is worth the massive amount of limited resources it is sucking up... but I need a little peace of mind right now.
    • Hug Hug x 1
  5. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist

    Yes. ;)

    It's not so much Windows Firewall specifically, nor is there anything inherently wrong with Windows Defender in and of itself.

    By default, Microsoft has a horrible track record of rushing out code before it's mature enough for prime time. Essentially turning the public into a beta test platform for it's latest flagship product.

    As a security person, this makes any product with the MS logo problematic from the start. I have to take their previous history into account. Let's face it, corporations aren't hip to fixing or changing things. Even less so if the cost is more than zero.

    "But what about Comodo?", one might inquire. My reply being, "I have no more "trust" in Comodo than I do in Microsoft. I trust the communities that provide feedback on the product, as well as my own field testing to confirm or deny information I encounter.

    Generally, and this is my humble opinion, the only secure system is one that you've built yourself, from the ground up. It used to be done that way, and everyone became lazy.

    Security isn't a technology problem. It's a people problem. As secure as the machine/device/software is, there's still a jackass on the end of it 8 times out of 10. And deviant types understand this concept, leveling it to their advantage.

    Hackers types, along the lines of Kevin Mitnick, get mad props for his technical prowess. The reality of his story is that Kevin is a masterful bullshit artist. While his technical skills surely outweigh those of the common person, without his ability to lie his ass off and make people believe it, he'd be punching in data for a bank somewhere in a windowless basement.

    I'm clearly baked, so I'm no longer certain where I was going with this post.

    • Like Like x 1
  6. Mulch

    Mulch Why does the drum come hither?

    i keep forgetting to mention this browser plugin from the EFF that helps you protect yourself from being tracked around the internet by companies that you don't even know exist

    privacy badger (no relation to sexual harassment panda)
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist

    Scouring the WWWastebin has produced sadness in pants.

    It appears you can force Linux onto this little guy, but a large chunk of things do not work, and there is an issue with the default Kernel that can cause massive loss of data.

    Problematic at best. More research might provide solutions to these issues. Perhaps this device is ripe for a LFS installation. Debian seems to be the most compliant distribution.

    For now I'm sticking with Windows 8.1.
  8. Govi

    Govi Ça va chier.

    Windows 10:
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title


    There is a Microsoft campus locally, and it handles some big stuff. Development is one of them. It is an HQ for many other campuses too. Our presenter was a Windows 10 developers... and it was fascinating.

    It was obviously going to be a propaganda fest from the beginning, when the first speaker went over all the cool stuff Microsoft is doing for the community, volunteer work, money donated, programs for donating, etc. The Windows 10 guy started strong enough, being honest and frank about the previous OSes, ripping into 8 a bit. The crowd liked it. Then he started to demo 10. And they got really quiet. The concerns began to trickle in. He opened up questions, and it was all concerns. Excitement had left the room by the end. I have done many of these events before, and know this crowd. They are a mix of tech people and regular people. They are usually very upbeat and excited. The room cleared REALLY fast after the presentation.

    Also, the start menu is like a pop-up windows 8 menu. The audience hated that, and multiple people brought up how much they liked the old start menu, one even mentioning 'Shell' (I assume "Classic Shell") multiple times and ticking off the presenter by doing so XD

    Presenter/ Developer mocked the inclusion of legacy features that were meant for 'old timers' like windows key + x. OLD TIMERS? THAT IS HOW TECHS ACTUALLY NAVIGATE YOUR STUPID BLOATED SHIT SO THEY CAN DO THEIR JOB. That one ticked me off. :p He was super excited about the zoom feature too, and kept showing it off like it was new or something.... >.>

    I was told by multiple people I did a fantastic job stumping the presenter. I asked if a specific feature was included, and in what versions (XP Mode, which is AWESOME but only available in Enterprise and Ultimate editions usually). He had no idea, but was curious himself if it was. I also asked about a specific feature he demoed. He showed how multiple screens are now presented like multiple desktops, with their own taskbar tied to the new screen and the icon is NOT displayed on the main taskbar, and instead on their own taskbar on the screen it is displayed on. I asked if this feature could be changed back, because I know plenty of applications where this is a BAD thing since it removes ability to have a central control screen to work from, especially in AV applications. He seemed shocked to hear this, and I suppose never considered that it could be a bad thing. He said it was meant to reduce clutter, and was unsure if this was something that could be changed back to how it was before. So, AV people, looks like you will now need to use third party software to manage windows across multiple screens and still keep a central control screen! I also was the only person in the room who had the answer to a question he received (What happened to Windows 9?) that he turned to the audience for an answer to.

    I expressed some security concerns I read here as well, specifically tied to how many ports are being left open to gab away with Microsoft, how well all the loose lipped ports are hidden directly into the shell, how difficult it is to therefore secure these ports and a subsequent system, and the fact the EULA explicitly does say Microsoft can collect whatever data they want (he didn't argue or even raise an eyebrow at that one, so it is obviously known by the developers and accepted). I blamed all the findings on Lain, but looking back through this thread, have realized this data was collected by someone else and Lain and Nina had just posted articles that I remembered reading. He gave me his contact info, and said he was very interested in getting field feedback on the security concerns, and any data collected. So, if anyone is interested in getting the ear of a Windows senior developer, let me know and I will pass you his email along with the sekret things to mention so he will actually read it (I'm looking at you, Lain, he seemed most interested in collecting data from outside security folks as well as hearing concerns regarding the cloud communications. If you are collecting data, this could turn out to be a sweet consulting gig or at the very least an opportunity to slap some reality into developers.)

    Oh! And I asked him if he had worked on DirectX 12. He hadn't but said he knows the team and could get me some nice production info (that wasn't the phrasing he used, but I got the impression of 'publically releasable information') I could get an exclusive before press release too, since they are so close to launch there shouldn't be much being held back any more.

    There also is hopefully something to be said about impressing a room full of tech people as well as managing to engage a developer for the largest OS in the world in a way that he remembered the conversations we had and was interested in discussing things further. Hopefully job-type impressing, as opposed to 'the rest of these neanderthals are just THAT fucking boring' impressing. :p I am going to email him something tonight or tomorrow.

    Interesting night. :D
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Mulch

    Mulch Why does the drum come hither?

    Hope that you LinkedIn connected with him

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  11. Lain

    Lain End of line. #resist

    Totally awesome, most people never get an experience quite like it.

    This kind of shit pisses me off. Nobody who uses your software gives a fuck what YOU think is a good feature or what YOU think their desktop should look and act like. Windows users want more flexibility like *nix users have they just don't want the complexity. More work on making it work how the end user wants, and providing them with more options to make it their own is the way they should be heading.

    I bet that was great to witness. Is there a video somewhere? Stump the presenter is so much fun when you're loaded with information and questions. :D

    Sadly, I am already on the list of people who provides feedback to these types, and you can see where it gets us. While my primary focus is networks and my primary tool is usually *nix based, I still belong to the long list of 'services' provided by the MSDN subscription and my continuing support of the Microsoft certification program by re-certifying at required intervals.

    I have not done any specific work with Windows 10 yet, including downloading and installing it, but it's worth noting that the list of people screaming at the top of their voice and being ignored by Microsoft is long, and growing daily.

    Very cool. It sounds like you're as engaging in RL as you are here. I'm certain quite a few people learned a few things is they were paying attention.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Kita

    Kita Should Update Title

    There *may* be a video somewhere, I will have to check next week when all the dumps are done. I am sure there are pictures at least, the networking group has photographers that float around. At the very least, I should be able to find a picture of him looking stumped/ perplexed/ annoyed. There was a lot of that, because he was super excited about Windows 10 and the crowd was VERY obviously NOT. Vast majority of the questions were complaints or confusion. I tried to be constructive by giving him an opportunity to recover a large chunk of audience grumbling by explaining XP Mode, which he completely botched since he didn't know if it was even available any more. Fail.

    I began an email last night, but didn't send it. It had turned into a "as-diplomatic-as-I-could-manage-so-late" rant that was very similar to the one I posted here about what I *wanted* to see, but didn't, and where Microsoft really dropped the ball. I think I should hold back on that if I don't want to scare the contact off, and see if he wants me to honestly bend his ear before I send him something like that. I think I will just stick with the part where I excitedly ask all sorts of questions about what DirectX12 will be offering, and include a brief and polite message about the presentation. He took a beating already, and I imagine this isn't isolated.

    I googled him, and he is no slouch, knows his shit in many different languages, has books about coding, has done training, has free code and lessons all over the place. He is really deep in Microsoft development and languages. His current position after finishing development is listed as a "Microsoft Evangelist". So his (I imagine quite well paid) job is to travel around and preach the good word of Windows 10. It's his baby, after all. Honestly, after being so involved in a project, you need your devs to step back for a while. Keeping them so closely invested in it doesn't allow them to see the forest from the trees, and leads to the same old shit cycling through. And that is what Windows 10 is. A mashup of the last 5 years with 'appeasing' purely aesthetic Windows 7 features meant only to lure people back with a sense of security. Fuck the marketing, I am not buying it. I am disappoint.

    They are on the right track with the 'one OS for all device' idea, that is definitely forward thinking and where we are heading. It is slick and well thought out when adapting it between desktop and mobile, and scalable for different screens and device types. The implementation, the OS itself, is fail though. Next release, I suppose. This is a 'brand new' start, so they will screw up the first one, then release essentially a 'revision' of the fail that will be great. If he is serious about listening to people, and takes input back to the team, there might even be a completely awesome service pack next year that saves it. I anxiously await that one, because I think it will be the most telling about this 'new' direction Microsoft is taking. Their response is more important than a failed experiment with their new ideas. I don't want to kill his baby unless he honestly asks for it. Bad for his ego and detrimental to any chance of squeezing a job out of him. :p

    And, yes Mulch, I sent a linkedin request to him. Waiting to hear back. His network is ginormous, it is a great contact to add!
    Last edited: 10 Sep 2015
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