order.

Discussion in 'news' started by Mars, 7 Apr 2011.

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  1. Mars

    Mars MCP
    vbulletin4

    since last logging in, there are 700 new posts, 62 reported posts in the queue, and countless threads derailed into personal attacks, including an mcp-initiated thread in the governance forum (described as strictly policed). we are not inclined to trawl through 20 pages picking posts out to shuffle off to a new thread. the thread has been made read only. it is ironic that in the midst of such antics inhabitants are demanding to be treated as adults.

    we will be making a few changes to the nodes. names and descriptions will change. mature-nsfw will remain a drama-free zone. a new node will be written out for topical, drama-free debate. area17 will become nsfw. threads in /dev/null will be moved, and /dev/null will be removed.

    in return, inhabitants will be expected to respect the long-standing community standards and forum descriptions. posts that violate said standards will be deleted without hesitation. the mcp will begin issuing infractions. those that exceed the infraction threshold will will be temporarily quarantined. those that habitually trigger the quarantine routine will have their accounts terminated.

    if inhabitants expect to be treated as adults, they are in turn expected to behave like adults.
    the mcp will give inhabitants the outlet node they desire. in return the mcp expects order.


    //////////////////////////////////////
    vigorous debate of this posting is encouraged, but under no circumstances should the thread be derailed or used as a venue to deride one another.
    let us make this more clear: the MCP will not, under any possible circumstances, tolerate off-topic commentary or ad hominem exchanges within the threads it initiates.

    in case that is not clear enough, if one wishes to test the resolve of the mcp:
    drag this thread off-topic
    post porn in this thread
    issue ad hominems within this thread
    deride fellow inhabitants in this thread
     
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  2. Pep

    Pep Eats Mars for breakfast

    Excellent!

    Pep (wants to know if Deimos will be repurposed.)

    PS You said that posts would be deleted "without hesitation" but didn't mention whether they would also be deleted "without explanation".
     
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  3. Lias

    Lias Open Community!
    Arsey

    I like the color indicator idea. Some wrong section posting are honest mistakes.
     
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  4. Wad

    Wad Drama is Fascinating
    Zorro

    After reading the above, there seems to be a disconnect with the term "adult"...especially within the context of an "18 and over" internet forum. Adults, by definition, are allowed, traditionally, to MIS-behave...And they regularly...and joyfully...do so. There seems to be a different presumption implied here. Perhaps that needs to be hashed out a bit more...elaborated upon. As has been mentioned before, is this to be a saloon, or a salon? Many go to a saloon with the express purpose of getting drunk and acting stupid. Servicemen do it routinely, as do college kids. Their behavior during such times is often outrageous, childish, churlish, and downright obscene, yet they're usually (statistically) not arrested, banned, or even chastised for it. They are also, by definition, "adults". When they return to their classrooms, or their barracks, they observe the protocols inherent within that context. Within the context of the post above, this is far from clear as to when, and where, exactly, the mcp "expects order". The more clearly this is spelled out, the better choice all of us can make as to whether this is, or will remain, the sort of venue we wish to spend our online LEISURE time at. Salons proliferate the internet. Saloons are harder to come by.

    It's also been mentioned that there is not, as yet, any 'mission statement' for this board. Is it a forum for a corporate/commercial enterprise? That would seem to demand more of a 'salon' decorum than the alternative. If this is the case, that should also be made clear, from the outset. If I wish to have calm, calculated technical/sales/marketing/whatever discussions with professional colleagues from similar backgrounds, once again the internet is teeming with such sites, most of which are far more sophisticated, and more heavily populated, than this one.

    If not, then does it exist purely as a 'landing zone' for those who, for whatever reason, have migrated from other virtual world sites? Is that a prerequisite? Are there ANY prerequisites, for that matter?

    And what constitutes NSFW? Only pictures, or do we need to also police our language, and keep it "church safe" in any NON NSFW venue here? Is this what is meant by "behave like adults". I tend to shun those sort of adults when I go out to enjoy my leisure activities. Should we regard this site as going to the pub, or going to church? Or both, depending on which node we're in at the time?

    Perhaps the most 'vigorous debate' that the above triggers for me, at least, is the repeated strong caveat that "mature-NSFW will remain a drama-free zone". Porn (images) is one thing. Foul language is another. Obscenity is yet another, but when it comes down to micromanaging whether something is "drama" or not, and infractions/deleting/quarantining/bannings potentially taking place on the BASIS of someone parsing whether "drama" was committed or not...well... I think the pooch just got screwed.
     
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  5. Clancy

    Clancy The drama is better at Hungry Jack's
    Diggingit

    Give it a fair go, see how you like it. You have many more personal options than Mars does, and very few responsibilities to this forum. Think about that.
     
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  6. Bulldick!

    Bulldick! Rampaging
    Notamused

    I am happy about the Area 17 change. Thank you Nina. I am also glad to see the mask off the MARS account. This post is full of emotion and furthermore, a threat.

    I also would like to see a clear definition of what accounts as an 'adult' for MARS.

    Meanwhile, I recommend to those of us that are interested in behaving like adults in the bar to meet in Area 17.

    :hug:

    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
     
  7. Love

    Love Feel the love
    Bored

    It looks to me like we are moving beyond the stage of building our own community and rules and squarely into the stage of having community and rules dictated to us.

    For the third time, have we ever agreed as a community to having posts withing the forum structure so clearly moderated based on location? To have punishments doled out when we post in the wrong location?
     
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  8. Love

    Love Feel the love
    Bored

    Perhaps Mars should read through the 700 posts if she hasn't yet. There is a strong will to not have posts deleted. Of the active voices, it appears to me to be a majority. Mars appears to be disregarding this community desire.
     
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  9. Love

    Love Feel the love
    Bored

    To be clear, Mars can do what Mars wants, obviously. Mars might even be making an "executive" decision which betters the forum. Maybe.

    But let's call it what it is and drop the illusion of self governance.
     
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  10. Stephie

    Stephie Should Update Title

    [sarcasm]

    If people are going to be quarantined to a "cornfield" type area, can we at least call it The Phantom Zone.

    "Cornfield" is a stupid name for a forum governed by planets. [/sarcasm]
     
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  11. Clancy

    Clancy The drama is better at Hungry Jack's
    Diggingit

    Go get yourself banned at SLU—you won't have any illusions about anything then, including gV. You will have to break a few unwritten rules over there, of course, and post comments that are commonplace at gV but rarely seen or tolerated there. The same applies to SC2, but SLU is the real place to get schooled as it is a pioneer in community control for personal gain by a massive liar and his small circle of friends; even SL's new chief paid a visit there.
     
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  12. Bulldick!

    Bulldick! Rampaging
    Notamused

    I would also like to have some clarifications about this paragraph:

    1. Do the standards violation refers exclusively to post placements?
    1.1 If someone calls another member a "poopy head" in a non Area 17 node, is that considered a violation? What about telling someone that he/she is "dense"?
    2. What is the defined threshold to be quarantined?
    3. How long will the quarantine last?
    4. How many quarantine events will trigger an account termination?

    If we are going to live by the rules, I want to make sure that the rules are very clearly stated and understood!

    :hug:
     
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  13. Derek

    Derek Psychohistorian

    Yes. The problem lies in the discretionary procedures involved in interpretation of what constitutes a violation that are undertaken in practice. These boundaries are not always so easily definable and then applied evenhandedly. It leads me to believe then that in order for this system to "work" every and all transgression from a simple "damn" in a non-NSFW thread must be considered a violation else some will whinge about someones equally or arguably minor infraction that was permitted. Not to mention the inability to accurately understand or comprehend the meaning and intent of a post leading to feigned butthurt of some or the vicarious outrage of the white knights which will perpetuate the frivolous reporting.
    There must be a limit put on the ability to file reports or an acknowledgement by Mars that those filing frivolous reports will be admonished.
     
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  14. Snapper O'Callaghan

    Snapper O'Callaghan It's not a hug. I'm not finished strangling you.

    Pipe down and eat your gruel, fool. A decree has been made.
     
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  15. Pep

    Pep Eats Mars for breakfast

    Mars is acting like Marlon Brando in The Godfather . . .

    Pep ( . . . making us an offer we can't understand.)
     
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  16. nina

    nina still prettier than you
    Nerdy

    from the very beginning it was planned that members would draft their code of conduct. that was done, although begrudgingly. it was also the plan that members would nominate peers to govern. that has been steadfastly resisted. it would appear that just as was the case when community standards were stalling, mars is relying more and more on an internal policy.
    more than once people voiced the opinion that they would rather have mars be the sole moderator than to risk moderation by peers, despite mars stating he does not want to moderate. it looks to me like a compromise.
    pretty much the entire complaint from mars has been that posts are not adhering to the structure of gV; personal attacks in mcp threads, porn outside the nsfw node, etc. i dont believe there has ever been any talk about trolling, harassment, personalities, or this sort of thing. there would probably be much less admin action if people simply stopped doing those sorts of things. but since they wont and they dont want peer-moderation, and since its likely overwhelming finding 700 new posts and 60-odd reported posts, this is the result. time isnt going to be spent relocating posts for people that cant be bothered posting in the proper subnode. everybody wants to be treated like an adult, so act like adults.

    again, language has never been an issue, not even hinted at being an issue. relentless personal attacks forum-wide are an issue. porn posted outside nsfw areas is an issue. if there is any confusion as to where a given line is, i reckon it will become clear once warnings and infraction notifications start showing up. i can think of no better indication of where the line is myself. weve certainly determined that talking about the line, pointing out the line in forum descriptions, and posting policies regarding the line has zero effect.
     
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  17. Sarah Nerd

    Sarah Nerd Feels most comfortable around other misfits.
    Barefooter

    62 posts reported?????? I guess no one is really interested in self governance.
     
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  18. Bulldick!

    Bulldick! Rampaging
    Notamused

    One thing that is clear, to me, now is that you are behind MARS, Nina, so from now on I will address my questions on the governance of this forum to you directly.

    In relation to the questions I formulated before, I would like the response in terms of what the "internal policy" says, thank you.

    :hug:
     
  19. Love

    Love Feel the love
    Bored

    I would guess that most of them originated from two individuals in particular. The rest of us are getting along well enough.
     
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  20. colleen Criss

    colleen Criss Your life will never be the same again.
    Cheerful

    Totally positive I would not bother to set down and read 700 posts either. So I can't fault Mars for not doing so either.

    Guilty. Paranoid now , so I check to be sure where I am posting.


    This is what we were supposed to be deciding all along I think, no one wanted to discuss rationally , just bait and complain and flame. Now we have (order.) I saw it coming. I know we all saw it coming. I hope this *discussion* will go better then the last one we were asked to have.

    I am less worried about what the punishments are/will be and more worried about how we act to avoid them. I have no issue with Mars ( order. ) and none following the rules for posting in the proper nodes.

    Good Luck to us all.
     
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