the beautiful armada

Discussion in 'the barracks' started by nina, 10 Jul 2015.

  1. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    the armada blog
    and the armada thread

    lots of considerations! not only do we need to think about what we want from others in the armada, we must also think about what they want as well. are there things we explicitly dont want? what are things that are reasonable for us to expect?

    points of interest
    • policy regarding fleet-climbing within the armada. what is the policy regarding a member from a gamma fleet seeking entrance into the alpha fleet to increase his xpbonus? we know it become an issue.
    • policy regarding locked buckets. is it reasonable for different fleets to block certain incoming/outgoing donations?
    • policy regarding fleet identities. should fleets within the beautiful armada identify as beautiful? should the do as beautiful -ufp- did and adapt a beautiful name?
    • should there be lower tier limits to ensure member fleets are at least active? something like betas must be t3 or t4, etc
    • should beautiful disable the armada channel and push people toward our global channel instead?
    • does t5 stop slotting projects entirely to encourage donations to the beta/gamma fleets? other than occasional provisioning projects as needed, of course.
    • interest in our armadas is high. we may need to insist that each beta gives us one gamma pick, otherwise we will be forced to leave many of our associates out in the cold
    • more to come

    non-negotiable points:
    • nobody (including betas) will ever seek leadership in anothers fleet
    • nobody (including betas) will require a tax or tithes or whatnot for membership in the armada
    • the armada channel will not be used. we will use the beautiful global channel.
    protocol as it stands today:
    • beta and gamma leaders may send a toon or an agent to the t5 inviter rank, and use it to benefit their fleetmates
    • fleet leaders can invite their members to the initiate rank as temporary long-term t5 members to earn bonus xp. they are free to manage their members (including kicking them) at will
    • fleets are not expected to change their fleet name, rank names/structure, alter their bank, etc
    • beta fleets can be no lower than t4. gamma must be at least t2 and active
    • all member fleets are expected to send out at least one fleet mail telling their members they have joined the armada and tell them about the global channel. members are under no obligation to join the channel.
    • t5 fleet will queue as few projects as possible, provisioning only as needed to maintain a reasonable parstock of provisions. if outlets for fleetmarks are lacking we may take another look at this.
    Last edited: 15 Jul 2015
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  2. Kaspa

    Kaspa Akagiyama 23

    My 2 cents:
    1st point, don't really have an opinion, trust your judgement.
    2nd point, my opinion is that should be at each fleets discretion.
    3rd point, i think fleets should be able to retain their identities.
    4th point, is a good one. I would think we would want the lower tier fleets to be active or at least making construction progress.

    Those are my opinions for now :). Also i have friends with fed and kdf fleets seeking out armada positions. When the time comes i will send them your way to undergo assessment.
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  3. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    i suspect there will be a lot of kdf fleets looking for larger fleets to armada with, and considering the ratio of active kdf fleets to inactive or 'small' fleets, we have a bit of room to set some ground rules, and we pretty much have to be the ones to shape the culture of the armada.

    in the first point, im not sure i mind if people fleet-climb, but the gamma fleets may really hate that. ironically we are set up to accomodate that already, and we could even facilitate it by letting each fleet put a couple people in our 'inviter' rank. they could then map-invite their fleetmembers to holdings at will, set them up with fleetships, and could even keep them in the 'initiate' rank indefinitely for the xp bonus. it could be a case of simply having them look after their own members from that rank. so we can either embrace an incestuous armada right out of the gate and use it as a selling point, or we can outright forbid it. if we forbid it it may prove difficult to police.

    as far as the 2nd point goes, i do think that beta/gamma fleets should have freedom to set their own in/out donation rules, but how do we feel about a gamma that only allows doffs and dil to be donated and thus rarely sees project turnover? at that point are they little more than a burden? it has always been hard enough getting people to donate doffs/dil in HoB; i cant imagine people will be super eager to fill those in a gamma fleet. they gamma definitely needs to be aware that they need to do some of the heavy lifting.
  4. Krunk

    Krunk New Arrival

    Everything seems tied to one question:
    Does entering into a HoB led Armada require full assimilation?

    I think it should.
    Then most of the other problems are negated.
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  5. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    i suppose this is sort of the first question we should all ask ourselves.
    *added more points to OP.
  6. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    people are going to want to fleet-climb from gammas to alphas so they can earn the alphas bonus XP. under the current armada system, its inevitable. ive been coming to the realisation that this is likely how our armadas are going to need to deal with this, and betas and gammas are likely going to need to accept this to function in our armadas. but we may actually be able to sell this as an advantage rather than might what may appear to be wholesale poaching:

    our ranks are already designed to facilitate temporary fleet invites for the purpose of buying fleet ships:

    rank 4: our rank-and-file membership
    rank 3: inviter, can invite to fleet, promote to initiate, kick lower ranks, and leave officer notes
    rank 2: initiate, has full buy rights
    rank 1: newbie, no buy rights

    we can assign beta/gamma fleet leaders to the inviter rank and allow them to not only map-invite their fleet members into t5 holdings at will, and get them into t5 fleetships at will, but they can also leave officer comments and keep track of their members and not worry about them getting lost in the general membership of the t5 fleet. they can kick their members from the t5 fleet any time they wish, yet my own members are safe. now that armadas are here its likely we dont even need the newbie rank anymore, and the entire structure can be moved down a rank.

    i think its in everyones best interest not to try fighting it, cos i dont think it can be fought. there is strong incentive not to keep your main in a gamma fleet.

    (something i posted elsewhere, but relevant)
    Last edited: 11 Jul 2015
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  7. Kaspa

    Kaspa Akagiyama 23

    More opinion based on personal experiences;
    5th point, i think fleets should be allowed to retain their identities and i think that would include keeping the Armada chat
    6th point, I have been involved with several large successful fleets that keep projects slotted at all times and there is still never enough to go around. Do not think this would be an issue. Forcing people to donate to X,Y, & Z often does not have the desired affect.

    More of Kaspa's loose change. Liberty makes for a happy game playing environment ;)
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  8. Krunk

    Krunk New Arrival

    Looks like you figured it out.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    i think i agree about fleet names. it would be too bitter a pill to swallow.
    as far as t5 projects go, its not my intention that hob would force members to donate this and not that. if we stop running projects the gammas and betas could do that by proxy though. if they set up all their projects so that they were only accepting dil and doffs, yeah that would be a problem.
    then again, if we constantly have our own dil projects open its fairly likely that betas/gammas would never see a scrap of dil or doffs from HoB, which is also a problem...
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Mr Fugazi

    Mr Fugazi New Arrival

    As a starter for 10, and depending on the final functionality of the system, I see it as mainly a loose confederation for convenience and over and above the issue of 'ooh me want to be in alpha' I would say leave as much autonomy to the individual fleets as possible. The alpha xp bonus may end up not being much of an issue depending on what the powers that be finally settle on. I would have the cull, see the numbers and make a decision on alts/fleet-climbing/fluffy dice then.

    As to the points

    1. Donations - As mentioned above I would leave as much autonomy concerning such things to the individual fleets. If someone ends up playing daft buggers, a quiet word can be had.
    2. Active fleets - I think it makes sense to try and ensure the fleet slots are taken by at least reasonably active fleets so Id agree with some form of tier requirement.
    3. Chat/Names - Some folks can be a bit antsy about being forced to use certain chats/tags so Id just leave it. I don't think any benefits outweigh the potential grumbling.
    4. T5 slotting - I would leave slotting as is at the moment and play it by ear once the system if up and running, possibly having temporary halts if/when needed.

    The above may change as more info becomes available but with a large number of fleets potentially under one umbrella playing it anything other than fairly relaxed and hands-off apart from one or two main points (potentially fleet-climbing being the biggie and the couple of non-negotiable points in the OP) will end up like trying to push water uphill with a fork or even worse like trying to prise a KDF/rommy science ship from the powers that be.
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  11. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    i wouldnt want to try to force a channel on anyone. i was thinking more in line with how we currently do it, where people arent required to join the global, they are just made aware of it and its left up to them.

    i do think having the armada channel active would be a bad decision though. the global channel is really the only thing that keeps out current fleets unified, and it even keeps members connected when they are on some toon fleeted with some unknown fleet. if the armada channel goes live it fragments HoB armada, the HoBF armada, and the HoBO armada. the global channel is really the only 'tangible' that can keep them all united.
  12. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    a new concern has arisen.
    • interest in our armadas is high. we may need to insist that each beta gives us one gamma pick, otherwise we will be forced to leave many of our associates out in the cold
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  13. Kaspa

    Kaspa Akagiyama 23

    Good point and reasonable i think
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  14. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    beginning to exercise executive privilege due to low member input. we have a matter of days.
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  15. Mr Fugazi

    Mr Fugazi New Arrival

    Forced was probably the wrong term for me to use, serves me right for writing whilst tired. 'Politely nudged towards' may have been better.

    The only concern I have with the global over armada situation is there is the potential to be a lot of clutter in there. It may make it harder for those in individual armadas to filter out any relevant info. For example there may be a fair bit of intra armada chatter/banter concerning HoBF which will have no relevance or interest to someone in the HoB armada etc so they end up skimming/ignoring chat and potentially miss something.

    Oh and I agree with you kicking executive privilege into gear. The clamour so far has been, for a fleet the size of ours, a little less than deafening. I trust your judgement, so you have my backing.
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  16. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    we wont be doing anything too terribly shocking.
  17. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    updated op.
    we will avoid queueing projects in the t5 fleet except as needed for provisioning. however, if the gammas keep all their mark donations blocked from us we will revisit that policy. it will be unacceptable for the t5 fleet members to have no mark projects in an entire armada.
  18. Lax

    Lax Inhabitant

    Looks good. I suppose every fleet uses their own provisions when it comes to shopping gear? Also has there been discussion of armada wide policy regarding alt toons, example other than Aux for our alts or limit the number depending on fleet tier in armada? Example gamma fleets could hold more alt toons than beta or alpha.
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  19. Briana

    Briana Vibrating erver closer to 4th Density

    I support your decisions 100%.

    Of course, after I challenge you for Leadership of HoB in 1 v 1 space combat and BLOW YOU TO SMITHEREENS, we'll talk about your "New Role".

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  20. nina

    nina still prettier than you

    the fleet stores havent been changed with the armada system. we still need to do the old-fashioned map-invites for gear and fleet-invites for ships.

    we havent had a proper discussion yet, but if it looks like space is running out we might look at limiting alts to 2-3 or whatnot in the t5 fleet.
    the beautiful armada thread on the sto forum

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